Curse

Amy Awien · Jul 03, 2007, 07:22 AM // 07:22

If you don't like it, don't take it. Basically you are saying that any build using more then two attribute lines is a failure? If your argument is that it is impossible to create a pet build because you must have maximized stats in Marksmanship and Beastmastery and Expertise, then you have limited yourself so much beforehand that you might as well not even try. There is a good selection of useful, low-energy skills for Bow and Beast, and it's easy enough to get relevant attributes to a respectable near maxed level.

Merging Comfort and Charm could be a bit too strong. Pet skills are cheap efficient and frequently have double effects. But making Charm operate as Pet resurrect sounds interesting enough, though I am sure it has been mentioned before.

around · Jul 03, 2007, 09:17 AM // 09:17

12 beast, 9 bow, 9 expertise.

Woot, you can be a crappy bow ranger AND a crappy beastmaster at the same time!

Oblivious Moose · Jul 03, 2007, 09:44 AM // 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Bowman beastmasters who want to be worth anything need high Expertise, high Marksmanship, and high Beastmastery, which you simply don't have the points for. Hence all of the common pet builds use other weapons, which don't pay an Expertise tax and thus have the luxury of running with just weapon + pet, not weapon, pet, and Expertise.

Of course, pets being mostly a DPS addition doesn't mesh well with the Ranger primary, which is otherwise a rather weak DPS option.

i hate to burst your bubble there, but seriously. have you seen a RaO thumper lately? or even before the RaO "Nerf" they use hammer + Beast + Expertice, not just your weapon + pet.

its common for people to spread out their attribute points across 3 different atributes, and still be extremely effective, if not more so than doing a setup with only two.

the only thing that merging these two skills into one would do is make more ima "thumpers" and make people cry because they got owned by someone AND a pet. on the other side, it would spark interest for the pve peple to have the ability to do more, and desirable things wiht their pet. including other professions, they will have the ability to have a pet, and more skills in what they really want, other than the wasted slot that having a pet u can revive. as for the PvP group, this will cause sooo much complaining, and it will make anet nerf the whole beastmastery skill line even worse than it is, and people will keep crying, and more changes will come out for more people to cry over.. its balanced as it is, no reason to try and make things "better" when the damn thing isnt broken in the first place.

all that said, im not for the merging of these two skills.

Ensign · Jul 04, 2007, 10:45 AM // 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Basically you are saying that any build using more then two attribute lines is a failure?

I'm saying that any build using more than two attributes that need to be at a really high spec to be effective is a failure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

There is a good selection of useful, low-energy skills for Bow and Beast

No, actually, there aren't. Bow has Distracting Shot there, everything else costs 10. Pet skills are a bit better. If you aren't taking advantage of the good bow skills, why are you using a bow? The answer is you aren't, you're using a Hammer or Spear in all likelihood.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

and it's easy enough to get relevant attributes to a respectable near maxed level.

If you don't have 12 Beastmastery your pet is garbage.

If you don't have 12 Marksmanship your bow damage is garbage. If your bow damage is garbage, what is the point of using a pet?

If you don't have at least 13, and likely 14 Expertise, your skills are garbage if you're using Ranger skills.

You simply do not have the points to spec a character to reach all of those attribute levels.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oblivious Moose

have you seen a RaO thumper lately?

12 Spear, 10+2 Beast, 8+1 Expertise. They've largely given way to Heal as One thumpers since the AI runs that better, and there's no way to make Rampage energy attractive anymore with the butchered duration on Rampage. Pets work well as long as you're not using such an attribute point heavy character pre-pet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oblivious Moose

not just your weapon + pet.

They take advantage of dual resources through adrenaline, in combination with cheap attack skills to run far less Expertise than any Ranger primary could get away with. Even low amounts of Expertise go a long way when you're using non-Ranger skills, removing the necessity of running a ton of Expertise to function. The same cannot be said for a character running on Ranger skills.

Amy Awien · Jul 04, 2007, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by spawnofebil

12 beast, 9 bow, 9 expertise.

Woot, you can be a crappy bow ranger AND a crappy beastmaster at the same time!

Woot, you certainly are the crappy beastmaster, no, a crappy ranger, if that is the best attribute distribution you can come up with. If you need to 'prove' your point by giving such a crap example, you've lost the argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I'm saying that any build using more than two attributes that need to be at a really high spec to be effective is a failure.

You have to look again then, it's quite possible to spec three lines high. The two extra attribute points from a maximized line result in no more then 5-10% damage increase, if that at all. It depends somewhat on the progression of the skills you use.

Quote:

No, actually, there aren't. Bow has Distracting Shot there, everything else costs 10.

That is rather untrue, and you should know it, there are plenty of good 5E bow skills to choose from.

Quote:

Pet skills are a bit better.

A bit better? You have to be trying hard to deliberately screw up when you take - and spam - 10E pet attacks. There's plenty of good 5E stuff for pets.

Quote:

If you don't have 12 Beastmastery your pet is garbage.
...If you don't have 12 Marksmanship your bow damage is garbage.
...If you don't have at least 13, and likely 14 Expertise, your skills are garbage if you're using Ranger skills.

You simply do not have the points to spec a character to reach all of those attribute levels.

10+2+1, 11+2, 10+2 ... three attributes at 12 or more. And if you can come up with 12/10+2/8+1 you might've come up with 12+2+1/10+2/8+1

Fallen Nephilim · Jul 09, 2007, 12:20 PM // 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by phool

IMO the new pve BM skill should replace charm in pve.

I was about to post saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" but that's actually quite a good idea. Though pets are fine as they are. A pet with around 5 BM (hardly a heavy investment) does around 10 damage to an 80AL foe. So that 1/4 of a skillbar that you invest in those two skills gives you 10 damage.

That might not sound a lot, but it does add up. Pets aren't as powerful as they could be, and perhaps Rangers need more incentive to use them, as they are supposed to be a core part of the class.

If Anet wanted people to use pets a lot more, disperse of the skillbar blackout when a pet dies. That would make me crack the ol' hyena out.

Nyagan · Jul 11, 2007, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Imo, the whole pet system would work better if there was a beastmastery "weapon". Theres no point in marksmanship if youre going full fledge beastmaster.

A beast mastery weapon? Thats as dumb as a staff that resquires sword mastery.

Levi West · Jul 11, 2007, 04:24 AM // 04:24

I say make it so if you are a primary ranger, you dont require having charm equipped for your pet, when you want to use them simply add comfort animal. as far as any/r make them have to use charm. After all rangers are supposed to be one with melandru, so make it happen lol...

GraceAlone · Jul 11, 2007, 08:31 AM // 08:31

I would have to agree that the skills need to be either merged, or like Levi said, have different requirements. Rangers should be using a pet as they have a ton of skills dedicated in that line. However having to use a minimum of two slots makes things difficult for us. Just my 2cents anyway

imblo · Jul 16, 2007, 12:20 PM // 12:20

I think the introduction of the pet ai/skill bar made beast masters a little more viable, but still more needs to be done.

The two main liabilities now to running a beast master are the skill black out when the pet dies (usually quite often) and the amount of space it hogs on the skill bar. Removing one of these liabilities ought to make it more accessible and appealing to ranger players.

So I think that either the skill blackout should be removed, or charm and pet res be rolled into one skill.